Dedicated Server

[incka]

I'm wanting a dedicated server, but ev1 seems to be low on ones I want at the moment, is there anywhere else you can recommed. I want high bandwidth and less than $130 monthly.

[MarkB]

I have a (junk) server that costs me $75 month, and unmetered bandwidth over a somethingMbps line (heh, can't remember exactly... basically allows max 600-ishGB at full throughput per month).

Check www.webhostingtalk.com in their Offers forum for a crapload of bargain deals.

[Chris]

With ev1 you need to check every day, preferably in the morning (US time if you can swing it). Especially when they're having one of their sales (they'll often have $1 setup fee sales).

I'm thinking about getting a third server.

[incka]

Which US time? Eastern seaboard? Mountain time?

They are sold out of all their servers at the moment... Grrr...

Give me some info on dedicated servers, are they hard to set up?

[Chris]

Eastern time.

Dedicated servers can be daunting to setup for the first time. But there are plenty of tutorials on doing it.

[MarkB]

www.serverexpert.com is a nice forum for advice, should you need it.

Also, www.deja.com (aka Google Groups) is your friend ;)

[Mike]

I'd like to get one from ev1, but at the moment with the servers they have left they are too expensive. Hopefully I'll be making enough money to buy one when my hosting account runs out in April/May time.

[chromate]

Be careful. I'd like a dedicated server. But mainly because it sounds cool :) Obviously, I'm not going to get one for that reason. I would ask yourself if it's actually worth it before jumping in. Just a word of warning. :)

[Chris]

A dedicated server makes it very easy to setup a new site.

[DaveM]

I wouldn't get one til you really need it.

Thats a mistake I made when I first started, I got one and didnt actually need all the bandwidth and processing power for about 5 months after...

Just think about it this way, if you can get away with paying $10 - $20 a month why pay $100(or more) for a server when you dont need it? You could take the difference and invest it into new sites, etc...

[ozgression]

Originally posted by Chris
A dedicated server makes it very easy to setup a new site.

But so does having a reseller account. I have a 2gb account with www.hostgiga.com and setting up a new site using whm is extremely simple. Plus I get my own dns.
________
Jeep XJ history (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Jeep_XJ)

[MarkB]

What happens if a script your download needs a perl module (for example) which isn't on your server? Can you install it through your reseller account? Or do you need to contact your host and request it?

Having your own server gives you plenty of freedom. I do suggest, though, getting at least a semi-managed box if you're just starting out...

[incka]

I'm setting up a site that will clog up the servers RAM with responces from the MySQL database. Chris says this happens with his online literature site so it will certainly happen on the site I'm working on. I'm earning enough from games2go to buy one easily anyway.


Edit: Which control panel should I choose? The only one I've used before is cPanel, so I need to know which ones are easy to use and which are not.

[Chris]

They're all fairly easy to use. I prefer how cpanel sets up the backend file structure though (consequently I use cpanel on neither or my servers, odd how that works).

[incka]

Any I should avoid? Any that are not web based?

[s2kinteg916]

i been happy with server matrix so far.........

[Chris]

I've never used Plesk. Ensim has a screwy file system but once you get used to it it is alright. It is also the most popular cp that they offer so you'll find alot of support/tutorials/faqs in their forum and elsewhere.

I use ensim on one server and hsphere on another. I paid $500 for hsphere. It is more for hosting companies (integrates billing and account management).

[incka]

Could you set up a hosting company on a CPanel?

[Chris]

Yes. But I don't know if it does billing integration.

[ozgression]

I've used ensim and cpanel and have to say that cpanel blows ensim out of the water.
________
BMW 501 (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_501)

[ozgression]

Originally posted by MarkB
What happens if a script your download needs a perl module (for example) which isn't on your server? Can you install it through your reseller account? Or do you need to contact your host and request it?

I try to avoid using perl so, for me personally, it isn't an issue.
________
digital scales (http://www.vaporshop.com/scales)

[DaveM]

Yeah Cpanel is way easier to work with, but it's also the most resource heavy to run

[incka]

OK, I'm gonna wait until I see the CPanel one I want...

Could you phone them and tell them that CPanel ones are what webmasters want?

[Chris]

Some people hate cpanel. They say it is insecure and unreliable.

[MattM]

I personally do not have a server with EV1, however I have a friend that does. Keep in mind, EV1 = Unmanaged.

If you go with them, then you need an intimate working knowledge of server management. You have to get it secured and keep it that way which includes setting up a firewall and knowing what ports to block, allow. You'll need to update your software as necessary, install new software and possibly recompile your kernel as newer versions become available. They offer no main support, most issues will be your own responsibility, when they say unmanaged server, they mean it. If something comes up with your box there, you'll shell out $75 per hour (half hour increments) for their support.

Now, that's fine as long as you realize what you are getting into and are capable of handling it all yourself. If you've never played with linux before, this is not the place to learn, grab a copy, install it, learn it inside and out, and then think about getting a EV1 box. If on the other hand your an old-skool linux geek who dreams in perl and writes your own kernel patches while on vacation in the bahamas, then sure, this is a great deal. ;)

You may want to get a managed virtual private server instead of an unmanaged dedicated server. You would be sharing it with a few other people but everything down to the memory and processor cycles are split evenly amonst the accounts, meaning they won't be able to use more than their part.

Not slamming EV1, just saying, know what you're getting into. As long as you're aware that they offer unmanaged servers, little in the way of hand holding, and that you're going to be pretty much on your own, and you're okay with that, then you should be fine.


Can I purchase technical support for my administration issues?

Most issues will be your own responsibility, but we do offer a few paid services:

System reboots - Free, just submit a trouble ticket in the members sections

System restores - If your software becomes unrecoverable, or you just want to start over, you can request a restore back to the default system configuration. All restores are done within 24 hours, although we also have an option for those rare emergencies.

Backups - We offer FTP storage space on an off-server storage array. Space can be aquired for a small monthly fee, in incriments up to 50GB. Please note, this is not an automated backup solution, you will need to FTP your files into the backup space.

Hardware upgrades - We offer a variety of harddrive and RAM upgrades for your dedicated server

[incka]

Um, I'm sure theirs tutorials, and others can help out in their forum or this forum or that server talk website.

[DaveM]

If your gonna get your own ded server you might also consider hiring a server management firm to look after it and patch it when necessary etc.

Costs about $50 - $100 a month

[incka]

Wow... expenisive...

I'm sure people can help me here if I have problems...

[chromate]

I doubt it :)

I'm with DaveM and MattM - if you have no experience of linux, don't get an unmanaged server. Unless you don't mind your site being down for a few days here and there whilst you try and fix problems.

It's not something you can just pick up from a few tutorials. There will be stuff that the tutorials don't cover. Some of it will get very complex. It's a whole new environment to get used to working in.

Have you logged in to your current server via SSH? If you're not comfortable working with your current server in shell, don't even consider landing yourself a whole server of your own to deal with ;)

[Mike]

Why not look at the managed servers, from a place like 1&1?

[incka]

They sound too expensive... But I need alot of ram from the SQL I will be using... Chris says online literature has problems with taking up alot of his servers resources, and I'm creating several massive database driven sites...

[Mike]

1&1 are selling managed servers for £29 a month.

http://oneandone.co.uk/xml/static/product_managed_server;jsessionid=E02C076B82CEAEE1 709F97C701B60C9B.TC30b?__frame=_top

[incka]

Nice... But... 10 GB traffic/month... Additional traffic £0.005/MB... Easily is way cheaper... I need loads more bandwidth than that...

[Mike]

If your looking at spending a lot, as you probably were seeing as you were interested in ev1 servers, then go for the Managed 3 one.

[incka]

20gb is not enough. I was looking for about 250gb. EV1 offer 700gb.

For 250gb on them it would be over £1000 a month. Not good. 1&1 = way too expensive.

[MarkB]

Take a look at servermatrix.com

[MattM]

Chris, are you using Ensim Basic or Pro?

[Chris]

Ensim basic on one server, Ensim pro on my new one.

[incka]

I'm going to go with the hostony one, as soon as I've got some cheques, which I should be send soon...

[MarkB]

Chris, have you experience issues running vBulletin on an Ensim box? I know there were problems in the distant past (18 months or so ago), but can't remember what they were.

How does Ensim compare with CPanel?

[Chris]

I've never had any problems.

Cpanel has a more traditional file system, and I think I like it better, but supposedly ensim is more secure less resource intensive. I haven't used cpanel for years anyways.

[chromate]

I used Plesk6 the other day for a client. It's quite a nice environment to work in.

[Westech]

I'll second Chris on the Ensim/vBulletin question. I'm running vBulletin on an Ensim Pro box and have had zero problems.

I'll also second everyone else on not getting an unmanaged dedicated server unless you're experienced with linux. In addition to your sites going up and down while you try to figure things out, you'll end up getting hacked, and you'll end up spending a lot of money for support when you accidently mess something up. Things like....
upgrading SSH and then closing your connection before you restart SSH. **POOF** $75 to EV1 to log in locally and restart SSH.....
Recompiling your kerned to fix a new vulnerability, choosing the wrong compile options, oops, kernel panic, server won't boot.. **POOF**$75 to EV1 to install a working kernel (or most likely just re-image the server and make you manually restore all your databases, sites, and settings (you did back up all of your databases, sites, and settings, didn't you??)...
The list goes on and on.

Just make sure you know what you're getting into. You may very well be able to find a shared or VPS plan that meets your needs for the kind of money you'd lay out for your own server.

[MattM]

Are there any major differences between Ensim Basic and Pro?

[Westech]

Originally posted by MattM
Are there any major differences between Ensim Basic and Pro?

I've used both versions. Some of the extra features PRO has and Basic does not are:

Subdomains
Site administrators can add/remove their own subdomains (subdomain.domain.com)through the site admin panel. Server administrators or resellers can set the number of subdomains available to each site.

MySQL databases administraton
Site administrators can setup and manage their own mySQL databases through the control panel. Site admins and Resellers can limit the number of mySQL db's available to each site.

Webalizer
The Webalizer log analysis program is integrated into the control panel.

High security mode
Offers a "high security mode" that locks things down a little more. Mainly cgi scripts and SSH access. Also offers a "compatibility mode" with the same settings as basic. This can be set on a per-site basis.

Configurable log rotation
You can configure log rotation from each site's control panel. The Logrotate utility automatically compresses and rotates logs based on configurable size and frequency settings.

Improved backup and restore
More site backup features. Site admins can schedule automatic backups to an ftp server, or download backups from the control panel. Backups include site files, mySQL and email.

** NOTE: Backup files from older versions of Ensim WEBpliance are incompatible with WEBppliance Pro!

Improved bandwidth usage reports
Bandwidth reports can catagorize usage by service (HTTP, SMTP, IMAP, POP, and SSH..)

In my opinion, it's worth getting pro if you will have webhosting clients who would benefit from being able to add/manage their own subdomains and mySQL databases. If you fit this category and don't have emsim basic, you'll be spending a lot of extra time answering emails and manually setting up subdomains and db's for your clients. The new backup features are really useful, too.

If your server will be used mostly to host your own sites, then you can do most of the above things yourself, and don't really need to spend the money on PRO.

[TechMonkey]

If you guys plan on being in the biz for the long haul - make the leap and get the dedicated. Yes - there is a lot to learn, but once you get the basics down you will wonder how you ever got by on a shared host.

Also - for those interested in control panels check the link in my sig. I have recently had 3 dedicated servers with 3 different control panels. I just dropped my Ensim server and will never use that POS again.