google weirdness

[Kyle]

Anyone noticing any weird google stats today?
Like, your site dropping from listings on certain keywords you used to score well with, then coming back.
Or just an overall real low day of Google referrals?

[aplus]

same here.

My site was listed on the 1st page for a keyword for several months now, then all of a sudden, its not even listed for the keyword now.. anyone with any ideas?

[digitalpoint]

Google made some algorithm changes, which they started to apply last night...

- Shawn

[Kyle]

Yah, I'm reading the huge thread over at WebmasterWorld now.
Just like their update back in July, which eventually was fine.
I'm not worried, yet. :)
Traffic over all my sites is down almost 50%, which happened last time also. There's also a lot of absolute garbage that comes up on search search phrases, undebatable garbage.

[Mike]

Does this mean there could be an update soon?

[Kyle]

That's what is going on, a Google update.
Problem is that it appears they're changing their algorithm, and using old data. However, this has happened before, and they will bring the new data in slowly over 3 or 4 days.

So, I won't post here again until the update is done.
The last time something this weird happened as in July.

[Chris]

This annoys me. I lose major money when traffic drops like this.

[chromate]

Originally posted by Chris
This annoys me. I lose major money when traffic drops like this.

I was wondering when I was reading this and also all the "decreased adsense earnings" stuff what it must be like to be in your situation where you depend on it all so much for your income. You must live in constant fear. I think I would!

[Chris]

Its why I save most of what I bring in.

[incka]

How much damage would it cause you if google was down (for whatever reason) for a month?

[Chris]

Crazy amounts. $40k probably.

[incka]

WOW... Over the average yearly salerey...


I'm still having problems promoting my site on google... I get over 10 times as many visiors from MSN search...

[X Q mano]

I haven't noticed any difference actually...

I've noticed a slight drop in visitors, but not from Google I think, more general drop... At least I think so... *goes to double-check*

[lo0ol]

I've dropped from the first page of my target keyword to the second page- like a drop of 7 or 8 or something. My traffic is a lot lower, even taking in account that it's a weekend (weekend traffic is lower for my site).

Hopefully they'll fiddle around with it more.

[chromate]

Well, I'm certain we will see more changes as far as the SERPs are concerned. The results seem terrible at the moment.

[chromate]

Actually I take that last comment back. They're not terrible, just a bit different. I can't quite get my head around it.

As far as I can see the results seem to be a bit more stable now (compared with before!). So, can anyone spot any patterns in the new results or fashion an idea as to what's going on or what the change is?

It's probably way too early to even be thinking about figuring out such things. The results will probably be completely different when I wake up tomorrow morning!

[lo0ol]

Originally posted by chromate
The results will probably be completely different when I wake up tomorrow morning!

We can only hope. :o

[Chris]

What is really throwing me for a loop is the fact that its not a case of there being two different indexes -- every datacenter is a little bit different.

[lo0ol]

I didn't even notice that. The majority show me down a bit; only one seems to have the same listing as before this change.

[incka]

Originally posted by lo0ol
I've dropped from the first page of my target keyword to the second page- like a drop of 7 or 8 or something. My traffic is a lot lower, even taking in account that it's a weekend (weekend traffic is lower for my site).

Hopefully they'll fiddle around with it more.


My weekend traffic is always slightly lower... By about 5-10%

[chromate]

Well, I woke up this morning to find that I've gone from page 4 in the SERPs to ranking #3 from the top :) Not complaining... Still, with the pace of change, I could be non existent in the next 10 minutes. Who knows?

[Kyle]

After reading more of the annoying chaos at WebmasterWorld, GoogleGuy may be hinting that the update is about over. I hope not... there is still garbage results for certain SERPs.

[chromate]

Well, no disrespect to everyone else, but I hope they don't change too much. Ranking #3 my traffic has rocketed, along with my adsense earnings! I'm quite excited as it's well exceeded my expectations. My CTR is just fantastic. Can't believe it.

There hasn't been any changes for a while now (since the start of today for my search terms). So maybe it is coming to an end. Though I though GoogleGuy said that he though there might be something introduced tomorrow?

It's just a waiting game. Hope everyone comes out of it OK in the end! Particularly Chris as he relies on it so much... Fingers crossed.

[s2kinteg916]

i notice alot of changes it just confuses me more :D

[Percept]

I went from the 7th place to the 2nd so I'm not complaining, but I also don't have anything to lose or gain really. It's just for testing purposes ...

[lo0ol]

Backlinks seem to be updated on -va and -zu. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to change search listings. Hopefully this will change before everything settles down. :\

[incka]

I'm not in the first 10,000 for the keyword I target... Google sucks unless you are the first to expliot the keyword...

[chromate]

inka, that's true. Though my listings look exactly the same this morning. GoogleGuy just said that they have some "minor" data to introduce maybe today. But apart from that, I think it's pretty close to being over.

Though, some of the listing just don't seem right still.

[Chris]

Things definitely aren't right.

[s2kinteg916]

so we had 2 updates this month ? or was there a mini update at the beginning of this month ?

[incka]

I'm getting higher positions for my games but all my category pages have gone down dramatically and the homepage still isnt listed for basically any relevant term...

[lo0ol]

I'm at where I was like 2 months ago. 2 months of slow progress is gone in a day. :\

And the sites above me are rather worthless.

[chromate]

Has anyone noticed any change today? There seems to have hardly been any?

[Mike]

I haven't noticed anything unfortunately:(

[incka]

Get off you segway and stop these google enginereers recking havoc the boss of google!

[lo0ol]

Backlinks were updated on my Google, but strangely have reverted back to the old version. I assume this means they're still tinkering.

[X Q mano]

va datacenters had changed backlinks for me...

[Keywester]

On this thread of websites no longer coming up under their keywords: I have found (in my area of interest) that it is us small guys that have been knocked way down or off altogether and replaced almost exclusively by large corporate, commercial sites. It is not simply an old cache as I have monitored my placement carefully over the previous year and the google database never dubplicated this abberation on an earlier date. Specifically I had worked my way up from #240 to #3 under the keyword phrase "rocking chairs". All of my primary competitors were in the top 50. None of us were even in the top 100 as of Sunday morning. I believe that one of the primary reasons that google has been successful is that we all felt they tried to the best of their ability to maintain an even playing field. If they loose that core credibility I for one will no longer use them or advertise with them.

[Kyle]

Keywester - I agree completely. I've noticed similar issues as you have explained. Also, I still notice lots of completely bogus results. Results that make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[Chris]

I have a PR 7 page that is no where to be found... most corporations don't get that high.

[lo0ol]

The sites above me almost seem un-optimized... I wonder if that has anything to do about it.

Does anyone have any real concrete notions of why everything's so haywire? Or is everyone else in the dark? :\

[incka]

Google Help Forum:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=google.public.support.general

[Kyle]

It appears the biggest thing this google update has done is lower the value of anchor text on internal links.

Example: Search google on led flashlight. ThinKGeek was #1... cause they have a pagerank of 8!! on that page.

Now look at all the people ahead of thinkgeek. Look at their backward links, and how they aren't internal.

[chromate]

I'm not sure it has so much to do with the actual anchor text, but rather where a link comes from.

It seems that the sites with many backlinks from a select few domains (ie, loads of internal links for example) will do worse than sites that have links from more varied sources.

This would be similar to the way in which having two links to the same site on one page -- only one of the links will count. I think it would be on a dampened scale though, so for each link found to a site from within the same domain, its importance is dampaned compared to the previous link found. Just an idea...

This would make sense, because it means that one site isn't more powerful than another site purly because it can place links on loads of pages. A vote is more equal.

But then, you'd expect to see this reflected in the PR. Which I haven't, so that's that theory out the window :) lol

[Chris]

I have conflicting information about internal links.

I've seen some instances where I can attribute the drop to internal links, but the sites that have risen don't have more external links than the sites that dropped.

Also I have some pages that get all their PR from internal links and they're still doing well.

[Keywester]

I have run a paid ad tile for almost a year now on Google and paused my ad with them in protest of the latest cache and or change in algorithm. I would encourage others to do the same. If enough of us do perhaps they will get the message. My note was as follows:
I am temporarily suspending my ad and encouraging others to do so until such time as your current cache and/or algorithm is changed. It is the opinion of many of us "smaller" folks that all of us have been bumped by either commercial/corporate sites or sites that are only marginally related to the keyword phrases typed in with your current cache. Most of us worked long and hard on our websites to incorporate the backward links and specific textual suggestions of Google for good placement on our keyword phrases. If the current cache is indeed a reflection of some new standing policy at Google I would suggest that it is misguided and that you will lose market share as quickly as you once gained it.

[chromate]

Whilst I applaud your efforts and approach, I really don't think it will make the slightest bit of difference. The fact that many webmasters have spent so much time optimising their sites is of no concern to google. It only hinders their algorithms which are designed to rank your site according to the value of your content as oposed to the extent of your SEO.

Whether these algorithms work or not, is a different matter! :) And that's the real issue...

[Keywester]

Chromate:
I agree that whether or not the algorithms work or not is the real issue. What I am trying to convey to Google is that one of the things that made them so popular so quickly was the perception that everyone was playing on an even field and that content and substance would be the ultimate determinant of value (ie. placement). By way of example I make custom rocking chairs. There are probably a 1/2 dozen other people in the country of my caliber. All of us were in the top 100 a week ago and some had been for years. All of us are now gone. Every single one! If you look at my site www.sarasotarockers.com you will see that I am content based. If you search on the keyword phrase "rocking chairs" now, 17 of the top 20 are corporate sites, two contain articles on making rocking chairs (that's cool) and the #1 position is held by someone who must be using gateway pages or something as his site only marginally deals with the keywords and he has been number 1 for six months. Whatever it is they are doing isn't working. The only way I have ever found of getting a huge conglomerate's attention is by going after their image or earnings.

[Keywester]

Chromate:
I agree that whether or not the algorithms work or not is the real issue. What I am trying to convey to Google is that one of the things that made them so popular so quickly was the perception that everyone was playing on an even field and that content and substance would be the ultimate determinant of value (ie. placement). By way of example I make custom rocking chairs. There are probably a 1/2 dozen other people in the country of my caliber. All of us were in the top 100 a week ago and some had been for years. All of us are now gone. Every single one! If you look at my site www.sarasotarockers.com you will see that I am content based. If you search on the keyword phrase "rocking chairs" now, 17 of the top 20 are corporate sites, two contain articles on making rocking chairs (that's cool) and the #1 position is held by someone who must be using gateway pages or something as his site only marginally deals with the keywords and he has been number 1 for six months. Whatever it is they are doing isn't working. The only way I have ever found of getting a huge conglomerate's attention is by going after their image or earnings.

[GCT13]

Keywester, I'm sorry for all the pain Google has been putting you thru this week. I did check Google for "rocking chairs", checked only 2 or 3 sites in the top ten, and was not surprised they were ranked ahead of you.

Fortunately, there's still a lot you can do on your site if your are optimizing for "rocking chairs".

For example, I clicked on your sitemap and there's not one mention of "rocking chairs" in the entire source code. "rocking chairs" should appear in each and every page of your site. And each and every page should link to your homepage with the included text "rocking chairs".

You've got a lot of pages there to work with.

Good luck. :)

[Keywester]

GCT13:
Thanks for the advice. I am about to do some redesigning anyway so now is a good time to follow your suggestion. Despite those definciencies you mentioned I had been able to work it up to #3 basing most of my focus on index page textual content and outside links to the site.

[GCT13]

Might want to read up on these articles in preparation for the redesign :
http://www.websitepublisher.net/website_promotion/search_engine_optimization/

[lo0ol]

Originally posted by Chris
I have conflicting information about internal links.

I've seen some instances where I can attribute the drop to internal links, but the sites that have risen don't have more external links than the sites that dropped.

Also I have some pages that get all their PR from internal links and they're still doing well.

I've seen about the same thing- nothing's really clear cut. For example, my site has more bushels external links than any of those ranked above me, and yet I moved down.

On the other hand, I've also seen those with internal links move up, as you have. Crazy Google.

[X Q mano]

I think I'll adopt the view I always adopt when crazy things happen with Google: Wait and see... :)

[aplus]

is the google update over yet? im really worried. My site was listed #4 on first page for my keywords before the update, since the update, up til now, its not even listed for that keyword...

is everyone elses' ok yet? or is it just mine?

[Keywester]

Aplus:
I was #3 under my keywords and after dissapearing for 5 days I came up #1 on Thursday night for about 4 hours and then was gone altogether again Friday morning. You're not the only one experiencing odd results. I thought it would have settled by this morning (Sat) but it still isn't right in terms of who comes up in my keyword category. I'm not *****ing about my own place. None of my competitors who have been high on their keywords are showing up either. None of them are spammers either.

[Keywester]

I was serious as a heart attach about pausing all my ads. I did that earlier this week and this morning have changed my default browser to alltheweb. If they rethink their algorithm so that Google starts returning better more relevant search results again I'll change back.