Kicked out of SitePoint

[Chris]

SitePoint was planning a Website Revenue kit that I was supposed to write. Obviously I also had my blog. I wasn't doing any of that for money, I do very well as most people know, but I thought it would be a nice opportunity, the kit that is. The blog never paid anything (atleast not yet), the kit would have been pay but in the grand scheme of my income (grossed 700k last year) it wasn't much.

I received an email this weekend stating they wished to have a conference call with me today. I assumed it was about the kit. In fact as recent as yesterday I was still emailing them back TOC revisions (despite the fact that apparently they'd already made this decision).

No, the call was about them not wanting me to write the kit, be a forum moderator, or blog for them anymore. Suddenly I had become a pariah.

The reason for this? They were "realigning their style" and "changing their focus." Who else was asked to leave? No one.

I'm not stupid, I can read between the lines, I did or said something either recently or in the past that they, or their new general manager, didn't like, and they decided to sever ties. Either that or they see my webmaster site as competition (I can't believe that, but you never know).

I was the most senior of the volunteer staff, and even have been a forum moderator longer than MMJ. The only person who has been a mod longer than me was Nicky. I visited this forum the first day it launched under a different name than it is now, and I registered within a couple months and have long been one of the top posters.

Always the forum staff has been managed by the admins and other forum staff. Never to my knowledge has SitePoint stepped in to promote or demote someone. Other than today.

After I got off the phone I was shocked, but I figured I should come and say my farewells. There is a private staff area you members do not know about and usually when someone leaves (and again usually it's their choice) they post there. Well, by the time I had gotten off the phone my access to that area of the forum had been removed.

I feel like the rug got pulled from under me and I am not happy about it. That is not how you say goodbye to someone who has put that much time in.





So... I think I shall launch a blog here, I really have seen now how blogs can be useful.

[The New Guy]

Wow. Crazy. The ONLY thing I could think of was that mabye you were alittle to self promotive but they could have just said something. Its like they just took away everything in an instant. Bad form sitepoint, bad form.

[lo0ol]

I'm as confused as you are. And angry.

[Chris]

I was never that self promotive. I've quite frankly never posted a link to this site from the forums (other than in the marketplace areas maybe), and only links to other sites when I needed an example.

Also... I should say that I didn't have an agreement over SP with this Kit.

They had asked me a couple years ago to write a book for them. I wanted to write something like what this site is about, they wanted something more about selling SEO services to clients & doing PPC marketing. So, after weeks or months or outlines and whatnot, they changed their mind.

So I always took their kit discussion with a grain of salt. We were working on this TOC, then they'd base a schedule around the TOC, and then build it into an agreement and we'd sign. In fact I have a copy of the agreement right here, the only reason it hasn't been signed is that the TOC wasn't finalized.

[The New Guy]

I am totally confused too. They said some BS about some new direction (corporate double talk) but yet they want to find a replacement. Seems contradictory. This is very fishy indeed.

lo0ol your pretty successful you might be next ;)

[Chris]

Ya... new direction. Apparently I'm the only blogger or forum staff member that is incompatible with their new direction.

[Chris]

Atleast one good thing should come of this.... so far a bunch of new people have registered on the forum and a large number of guests are browsing...

Our little forum here is quiet, but its like a small town, everyone knows everyone else, and by and large the members here are business owners, making it a slightly different crowd.

[r2d2]

Man, that is seriously bad manners. You must have put weeks/months worth of time into that site, for no return, and thats how they treat you??

This is gonna give them a really bad reputation.

[Johnny Gulag]

Atleast one good thing should come of this.... so far a bunch of new people have registered on the forum and a large number of guests are browsing...

Our little forum here is quiet, but its like a small town, everyone knows everyone else, and by and large the members here are business owners, making it a slightly different crowd.

I decided to join :) Figured I might as well. :p

[The New Guy]

Ya... new direction. Apparently I'm the only blogger or forum staff member that is incompatible with their new direction.

Its funny too. How long was Harry MIA and he comes back without skipping a beat.

[Chris]

You know... my blog post about Amazon-sense (a story I could have broke here, but rather I broke there) resulted in probably more trackbacks and incoming links than any other blog post they've ever done. Moreso I did 4 interviews about it in which I mentioned SitePoint, getting their name, and in somecase links, in major media publications.... like here: http://news.google.com/news?q=amazon%20beasley&hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-44,GGLD:en&sa=N&tab=wn

The thing is.... and I talked this over with them when I first started blogging. Most of the bloggers get something out of it. For instance Brendan Sinclair. He is constantly talking up his business, basically the guy is a salesman 24/7 and when he isn't selling a product he is selling himself. He undoubtedly gets clients from SitePoint, all the bloggers do. I'm unique in that I don't take on clients. I really wasn't getting much benefit out of blogging...

So in short my blogging was benefiting them far more than it was benefiting me. I guess it just kinda makes it more insulting.

[Todd W]

WOW, sorry that it happened!

I`m sure your blog will be just as succesful here - sitepoint sig time I guess ;)

[Frozentoast]

I hope you didn't mind me signing up, Chris. I eagerly await your blog and perhaps your own amazing book. :)

[deronsizemore]

Man, that sucks! Sorry to hear that. I kinda enjoy the "small town" feel this forum has to it. Even though I joined SitePoint first and still love to post there...I think I've got more out of this forum thus far than I've got in replies from SP.

[Chris]

I'd also like to say that I never asked for anything front SitePoint.

I never asked to be made a member of forum staff, and back when I was made a member it was by application (now its by invite only) so you had to apply. They asked me if I wanted it.

Likewise, when I was made team leader, I did not ask for it, they gave it to me. In fact the administrator at the time said the choice was obvious.

I never pitched a book idea to SitePoint, but they twice asked me to write a book for them.

I never asked to blog for them, they asked me.

So, over the past 7 years I've received nothing but positive indicators from them that they liked what I was doing. Afterall, why else would they continually ask me to do more things?

Then today I find out their new "General Manager" reviewed my work and decided against me. This is some guy hired from outside the company, I don't know exactly what his job description is, but I definitely place the blame at his feet because if the others didn't like me I'm sure they would have never asked me to do the things they asked me to do.

I really don't get why they even need a general manager. They're not that large a company, I've seen the staff photo. Plus, I Googled the general manager and as far as I can tell he has no experience running websites or web businesses. If its the same Luke as here (http://www1.auspost.com.au/priority/index.asp?issue_id=13&area=features&article_id=281) it seems like his background is in setting up computer systems/networks for businesses.

[KLB]

Loosing you will cause a serious brain drain over at SP and I decided I had better join here if I were to continue to benefit from your wisdom.

If they would cut Chris, who wouldn't they cut?

[The New Guy]

If they would cut Chris, who wouldn't they cut?

Yeah. This is something I have been pondering for awhile. A website's culture. And man did this ever do some damage.

[KLB]

SP just made me a mentor, but I wonder how much effort to invest in them when things are so voltile. It isn't like I get paid and our sigs don't show to the SEs. Beyond the knowlege I gain from participating in SP there is no added benefit to being a mentor for them. I accepted the position because I care but now I'm worried if I'm wasting my time.

[Chris]

Even so Ken, you might not even have a team anymore.

Lets face it, there are only so many active people in that area, and they're all either staff members or don't want to be. If some people resign, which I hear is the word on the street, then they won't have enough people (especially active people) to handle it. They'd have to merge it with another team.

[KLB]

I'm wondering if someone should post a message over there stating "would the last one out please turn off the server"?

[Bleys]

Even so Ken, you might not even have a team anymore.

That's seems like a possibility.

[KLB]

"Pinky are you thinking what I'm thinking?"

"I think so Brain but burlap chafes me so."

[LuckyShima]

I really don't get why they even need a general manager. They're not that large a company, I've seen the staff photo. Plus, I Googled the general manager and as far as I can tell he has no experience running websites or web businesses. If its the same Luke as here (http://www1.auspost.com.au/priority/index.asp?issue_id=13&area=features&article_id=281) it seems like his background is in setting up computer systems/networks for businesses.
They are quite well established now: http://www.sitepoint.com.au

He would be very useful securing government and corporate contracts.

It actually seems like a good move for you. I couldn't see the reasoning behind you blogging for them when you can do it yourself. I realise you enjoy doing it and you are not in it for the immediate rewards, but now it will be clear that the blog is yours, not sitepoints. Good luck.

[Vinnie]

This sucks Chris. I wish you nothing but the best on your own (though I know you'll do fine anyway) :)

[Blue Cat Buxton]

I find that extrordinary, the time you have put into SP, and the value that the other members got from your input.

Ihavent visited there for a while. I guess I know why I lost interest now, if that is how they 'progress'

[Masetek]

Our little forum here is quiet, but its like a small town, everyone knows everyone else, and by and large the members here are business owners, making it a slightly different crowd.

This forum gets my vote as the best and most helpful webmaster forum. This forum have a bunch of really experienced publishers who've been in the game for a long time. People who often take the time out of their busy schedule to help out here with detailed answers and information. I like the "everyone knows everyone" feel and this is the first place I turn when I need help any anything.

As for you getting kicked out of SP, you must have done someting they really didint like. Realigning? what a BS excuse! I thing it would be a REALLY good idea for you to continue your blog here on WP. People who have been reading your blog on SP will definately come here to read it, and hopefully they like it here and contribute to the site.

[KLB]

There is no doubt in my mind that many SP members will take refuge here. While it sucks, the silver lining to this issue is that these forums will really take off the ground and become much more active.

[MarkB]

Chris, I could never understand why you continued to give them your time when they knocked you back on the first book.

'Aspen' is one of the more recognisable names there (at least to me; I can't visit a forum filled with so many sycophants, so maybe I'm missing out). The only reason I still visit there is your's and Andrew's business blog.

Start a blog here, you know it makes sense ;)

[ogito]

with that decision taken by SP, WP will grow much faster and I like the "small town" here...

[chromate]

How utterly ridiculous. All I can say is... "their loss!" ... and unfortunately that applies to the sitepoint community at large too.

I would REALLY like to see you continue your blog on here. If I were you, I would get it up and running quickly and make it a prominent feature so everyone checking over from sitepoint will see they can get the same great information here. Don't let the opportunity slip!!

It would be great to see that book further down the line too.

[MarkB]

I concur on the book. Put it out via Lulu.com (or just as an e-book). If you need editorial help, I'm happy to pitch in. I is good at me spellin.

[moonshield]

This is a terrible decision for SitePoint, it looks like it's trying to kill itself.

[Westech]

Wow. This is a huge loss for Sitepoint. I can't understand this decision at all.

On the bright side, it looks like it might be a huge gain for this forum. Not only does Chris now have more time to put into this site, but this situation seems to have drawn many of Sitepoint's best members over here. Hopefully they'll hang around and keep contributing.

I've always preferred this site to Sitepoint anyway. I love the "small town" feel, and the signal to noise ratio seems much better over here. You don't have to wade through pages of useless posts to get to the good info.

[KLB]

Yep we can take those hip waders off here. ;)

[Cutter]

Wow, I was wondering why the traffic on this forum exploded. Just move on, this is giving you the biggest oppurtunity here, and I don't see how it benefits SP. I'm waiting for you to start your new blog, (hope you don't need a custom WP theme for it :) )

[Mike]

Heh, I've just logged on and found this, can't believe it! I'm sure SP will lose a lot of members, but I suppose they deserve everything they get after this :)

[Kings]

Like I said on SitePoint, please continue your blog here, as it was a great resource with excellent advice. It's the only SitePoint blog I'm subscribed to.

[Dan Morgan]

What a day to check in after some time off at SitePoint...

[Vinnie]

What a day to check in after some time off at SitePoint...
it's really hit the fan today :(

[KLB]

it's really hit the fan today :(
I don't think it has even begun to hit the fan. We are only getting a precurssor smell of what is about to happen if something isn't done. :eek:

[Kings]

Indeed, this could have long lasting effects on the SPF community.

[Chris]

I wish I could still see the staff forums... alas...

[KLB]

It isn't that exciting. At least not yet. I've seen better fireworks in an Opera thread.

[ses5909]

On the bright side, it looks like it might be a huge gain for this forum. Not only does Chris now have more time to put into this site, but this situation seems to have drawn many of Sitepoint's best members over here. Hopefully they'll hang around and keep contributing.

I've noticed lots of us signing up. I plan to stick around to help and learn when I can. Definitely will be a great boost to this forum. People are pissed about the way things are handled.

[Dan Grossman]

Just two days ago I was approached by someone on SP staff (again, once before a month or two ago) about being involved in the "Website Revenue Maximizer Kit". I replied that I didn't have time and wasn't interested, even mentioning Chris in my reply. I got a reply yesterday that the kit was put on hold anyway.

Seems like this person didn't know Chris was being asked to leave the next day.

[Steelsun]

Hmmmm, seems a bit fishy.

[Chris]

Dan I believe they wanted you to be an expert reviewer... but ya... this was certainly sudden.

[Josh_]

This is indeed very disappointing, and a terrible move by SitePoint.
I've always enjoyed reading your posts, Chris. Many of which have inspired me.


I think I'll start posting here ;)

[Dan Grossman]

Dan I believe they wanted you to be an expert reviewer... but ya... this was certainly sudden.

It's a shame. Any kit/book with your name on it would've sold like crazy.

[Bleys]

It's a shame. Any kit/book with your name on it would've sold like crazy.

I think that's probably true. :) I imagine a general "How to Build a Successful Website" kit with Chris' name would have outsold the Web Design Kit in short order. ;)

[Sean]

Yeah, I probably would have even bought one... and I'm the cheapest guy on the planet.

[agua]

This whole thing smells of poo...

Does anyone have any ideas of the motive?

[Chris]

I surmise something I did or said either recently or in the past pushed the wrong buttons with the new general manager.

[KLB]

I don't think anyone beyond SP's inner circle knows the real reason. Matt Mickiewicz did send me a polite PM in regards to one of my posts citing professionalism and confidentiality as the reasons for not disclosing more to the SPF community. I think the only way to counter this would be for Chris to publicly state that he would like the reasons to be made public. This would eliminate the confidentiality defense and knock down a great deal of their professionalism defense.

My hunch is that from a business perspective they see Chris as a long term competitive threat and that his position as a team leader gave him too much insider knowledge for the new GM's liking.

[Chris]

Unfortunately I don't know if I want the reasons made public or not... seeing as how I don't know what they are.

[Bleys]

Unfortunately I don't know if I want the reasons made public or not... seeing as how I don't know what they are.

Then I wonder what Mark Harbottle meant in his public statement (http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2543336&postcount=69) when he said:


We organized a private phone call with Chris where we discussed our concerns and told him why we thought it was best to part company.

:/

[Chris]

The concerns he is talking about is that they're "Realigning their style" and whatnot. Those are the words they used. I specifically asked if I did or said anything wrong and they said no, they just didn't think my style fit with their style.

[Bleys]

It seems odd that you'd be the only one to go if that were the case (is your 'style'--whatever that may be--really that different from the rest of us?), especially given that, as you said, they had asked you more than once to write a book with them and up until yesterday that was still on track. And given that your blog is one of the most popular they have, and that they also said, quoting Mark again, that they "have a lot of respect for Chris and the knowledge he has shared with us all over the years."

If I had to guess, I would think Ken is probably closer to the truth... but I'm just speculating.

I am curious to know what the "new direction" for Grow and Manage will be.

[JohnScott]

I think it's awfully stupid from SP's POV. By demoting you they will just send more people to WSP. (That's what this place is called, no?)

Anyway, you shouldn't have been doing all that work for free anyway.

[Erin]

Like somebody else said--I took a couple days off from SP, and saw this. At first I thought it was because Chris was going to do his own thing (he's got a loyal enough following), but I was shocked to read that he was no longer wanted. I could only surmise pretty much what Ken thought--that somehow having a such a highly-respected expert with a team leader badge and who was not on SP staff would not work well for SP Ltd.

Well, I'll be hanging out here more, that's for sure. :)

[charmedlover]

It isn't that exciting. At least not yet. I've seen better fireworks in an Opera thread.

I found this quite funny. :p

I figured I'd register here just to spite SitePoint a bit and I see that I'm not alone.

[KLB]

I found this quite funny. :p

I figured I'd register here just to spite SitePoint a bit and I see that I'm not alone.

OMG! :eek: All I have to do is mention the word Opera anywhere on the Internet and you show up like a bad penny. ;)

That is too funny.

Welcome aboard.

[Bleys]

OMG! :eek: All I have to do is mention the word Opera anywhere on the Internet and you show up like a bad penny. ;)

He has one of those computers the Pentagon has that scans the Internet for words like "terrorist" and "president" and "assasination" ... except his exclusively searches for the word "Opera."

[charmedlover]

Well you know the first thing I do when I come to a new forum is search for recent Opera topics to make sure I get my two cents into the conversation and it just so happened this came up first.

I know it is quite sad. I really should apply for a job with them. :D

[KLB]

Well you know the first thing I do when I come to a new forum is search for recent Opera topics to make sure I get my two cents into the conversation and it just so happened this came up first.

I know it is quite sad. I really should apply for a job with them. :D
And we accuse Vinnie of having no life.

[charmedlover]

It's just a good distraction from work. :p

[Vinnie]

And we accuse Vinnie of having no life.
i found this thread searching for my name :rolleyes:

[Bleys]

i found this thread searching for my name :rolleyes:

Now I'm suspicious. You sound more like lo0ol than Vinnie.

[topnwk]

It sucks whats they did, I think I'll start hanging out here now (as well as some sp), seems like a good community.

[Doug]

I don't like what happened at all. I think they will find out that it wasn't a good decision on their part.

[charmedlover]

Did anyone else think that Mark's (from SitePoint) reply was rather snotty?

[MarkB]

I'm not surprised - there has been a largely negative reaction to a decision they've made, so he's on the defensive. *shrug*

I'm just curious as to what their new direction is. Even more skewed towards the freelance developer (and further away from 'DIYFY' (Do it yourself, for yourself) publishers)?

[jelena]

Chris, should we expect from you to keep posting at SPF?

[Chris]

I'll post occassionally there, but seriously lately my main reasons for staying were the positions I held so my posting will certainly drop off.

[Dural]

I just posted this on the SP thread:

http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2544723&posted=1#post2544723

From a business perspective, I think you should take advantage of this, Chris. You could use the controversy to drive thousands of people to your site.

Whatever you want to do, I'm in. Even if it's nothing.

[Chris]

You can do whatever you want, and while I certainly want as many people as possible to switch forums, I don't have a vendetta against SitePoint. When a comes right down to it they can run their business as they see fit, whether or not they're smart about it is their problem.

[KLB]

Well these forums will become my first stop before visiting SP. Within the next week or so I'll figure out what I'm going to do at SP. It will all depend upon how I think they remedy the issue.

[Dural]

Instead of everyone leaving SP, why don't all of us just stay on the forums, put links to this site in our signatures, and point visitors to the articles, whenever possible? That will create a much bigger impact than leaving.

[Chris]

There isn't much they can do to remedy the issue. You can't unring a bell.

They can't recant and offer me my position back. It'd make them look weak and indecisive (plus I have more self respect than to accept it back).

Basically, if they regret what they did at most they can say that they regret it and wish they had made a different decision.

[KLB]

I think it would be best if I resigned my mentor position at SP before doing something so cheeky. ;)

[Dural]

Oh, I agree with you, Chris. In the end, I don't think this is going to hurt you much. In fact, you're probably going to get more benefits from their actions than writing a blog for them in the first place.

I'm a good example. I hadn't stopped by for several days before finding out about this. Now, I'm refreshing the page every five minutes.

You're also right about there being no point to making sitepoint suffer. Besides making me feel better, that is. When someone I like and respect is mistreated, I turn into a crazy cracker.

Also, I'd guess this site isn't making you a lot of money, compared to other sites. How much time are you willing to devote to it?

Of course, if you write a little kit about web site publishing, I think it will become a big earner for you. I'd buy it.

Anyway, we're all behind you, Chris. You've built up a lot of good karma. If there's anything we can do to help you, just ask.

[Chris]

This site doesn't make me much money now... but I've always considered it a long term investment. I expect this site to pay off years down the line.

[KLB]

Well I look at participating in your site as an opportunity to help you grow this forum. I think I will get a lot out of these forums and in a way I owe you since it has been your guidance at SP that helped me become successful with monitorizing my site.

Here's to future profitablity of these forums! :pint:

[Steelsun]

I have not been able to devote much time to SP lately, with all my other endeavors, and have been debating resigning my mentorship. These callous actions on their part might have been a deciding factor. I just hate leaving the comradery of the mentor's lounge and the friends I've made there. But since the best of them seem to be coming here, and this place is more homey than SP is now (since it has become overrun with script kiddies and template sellers), I may resign anyways.

I expect to make a decision by the end of the day.

[deronsizemore]

I definitely visit this forum more than SP now. I used to love SP but it just seems to be going down hill. Not just with the Chris situation but in general.

WSP is definitely my first choice from here on out!

[piniyini]

Hey Chris, I cant believe they did this to you, I only ever read your blog posts on SP and they will definitely lose a lot by making the decision they have.

They way Mark (co-founder) was talking on SP, it gives the impression he told you the reason behind thier actions but after reading the posts here its obvious this is not the case.

Oh well, thier loss.

[ses5909]

I have not been able to devote much time to SP lately, with all my other endeavors, and have been debating resigning my mentorship. These callous actions on their part might have been a deciding factor. I just hate leaving the comradery of the mentor's lounge and the friends I've made there. But since the best of them seem to be coming here, and this place is more homey than SP is now (since it has become overrun with script kiddies and template sellers), I may resign anyways.

I expect to make a decision by the end of the day.

Let us know what you decide. It would be sad to see you go, but, you have to do whats best for you. Plus, we'll still get to see you around here.

[Bleys]

I probably will continue to be an Advisor at SPF. I enjoy the community, and for networking it is a great site to be a part of. I also generally like working with people like Tom, Sara, Sarah, Zach, John, Peter, and Vinnie, etc. But I will also certainly make a concerted effort to spend more time here. I was almost positive I had signed up here a long time ago, as I have been a long time reader of these forums and the articles on this site. :)

[ses5909]

I probably will continue to be an Advisor at SPF. I enjoy the community, and for networking it is a great site to be a part of. I also generally like working with people like Tom, Sara, Sarah, Zach, John, Peter, and Vinnie, etc. But I will also certainly make a concerted effort to spend more time here. I was almost positive I had signed up here a long time ago, as I have been a long time reader of these forums and the articles on this site. :)

Same with me. I like the community and the forums over there.. I will just have to make time for another distraction and participate here as well.

[I, Brian]

Hey, Chris - at Sitepoint you were the one who introduced me to SEO, showed me the basics, and helped provide the groundwork for what is now a successful full-time business for me.

More than that, you always walked the walk - even if I didn't always agree with you on SEO issues, I always respected you for the fact that you had already established yourself in your own right - you stuck to what you knew from experience, rather than diluting any message with rampant speculation.

Not sure why Sitepoint did this, but it doesn't reflect well on them, and kudos to you for not turning it into a bitter fight.

I don't normally visit here - maybe will in future - but regardless, respect and best wishes for the future.

[dc dalton]

Sorry I'm so late getting into this one, been waiting 3 days to try and get my account right! (thanks Chris)

Anyway, I let my feelings be known "over there" but this incident just proves what I have been saying for about a year now.... things have changed for the worst at SP and it has been a downward spiral for some time. I kept hoping things would get better but they haven't and personally it's time for me to move on..... this place seems a lot more professional and I LOVE Chris' articles so here I am.

Sad too because my first 6 months or so at SP was a blast, it was a great combination of fun and helping out but then it seemed the "bean counters" and big wigs got too involved and here we are. Now granted they need to make money and far be it from me to say they shouldn't but its the attitude change that bothers me ....... it just seems to have gotten mean and nasty!

[charmedlover]

I spend quite a bit of time at SitePoint and I'll probably continue to do so. This forum is just opening a whole new distraction for me. :p

I would give up SitePoint if I hadn't gotten half my jobs from it (people randomly contacting me as a PM about a job) and gathering tons of advertisers there. I do like the community as well.

[r2d2]

Did anyone else think that Mark's (from SitePoint) reply was rather snotty?

Do you have a link handy to this?

[Westech]

The entire thread: http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352830

The reply in question: http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2543336&postcount=69

[charmedlover]

Now that this whole ordeal is escalating I'm wondering if any other forum staff members will resign.

[r2d2]

Thanks Westech - yes that is pretty lame post by Mark of SP.

Just posted in that thread - I had forgot how cool my little Avatar was on there :) I had given up with SP really after I learnt most of my stuff and it was just the same threads week in week out. I can only see that getting worse as all the people who know their stuff leave SitePoint.

[lo0ol]

Now I'm suspicious. You sound more like lo0ol than Vinnie.
What? Sorry, I missed the other part of the conversation. I just did my daily search and this popped up.

[mini]

Chris, you're the main reason why my bf and I read sitepoint.

These days, we read sitepoint only to keep us updated with the news (we've learnt enough SEOs from Chris already :D). Remembering the early days when we started reading sitepoint, we really had to find, sort and follow the right mentor/postings that's useful and we found Chris' postings to be the most useful and they're proven to be true :).

Sitepoint will tell you general SEOs, while the websitepublisher tells you specifically how to make money from SEOs.

IMHO, Sitepoint feels threatened, I hope you'll grow this forum Chris and be as big or bigger as sitepoint :)

[mini]

Oh and also make them (sitepoint) regret BIG TIME! Start by taking their market shares, closing in bits by bits and eventually Eat THEM ALIVE hahahahahaha

[Bleys]

What? Sorry, I missed the other part of the conversation. I just did my daily search and this popped up.

Haha, that proves my point perfectly. My post was in reference to Vinnie searching for his name. ;)

[KLB]

Haha, that proves my point perfectly. My post was in reference to Vinnie searching for his name. ;)
You know, I can't remember if I've ever search for posts that contain my user name.

[Erin]

Well, the one good thing is that SitePoint is letting that post stay there, even with all the negative things said about SP.

[Doug]

I think it will be interesting to see just how big of an impact this whole thing will have on SP. It looks to me like it isn't just going to be something that they can grit their teeth and let blow over. It sure seems to be escilating quick and not in favor of SP. Think they regret their decision yet?

[KLB]

I don't think they have an option in that matter. If they squelched that thread or post it would be even worse for them.

[Doug]

I agree, if they were to shut down the thread now another would open up. If they shut that one down yet another.... By shutting down the thread they would cause an insane amount of speculations that would cause possibly an irreversable decline in SP. I almost wonder if that has happened already though...

[Erin]

I think SP will be fine. They've got enough of a name to get through this and more. I think the vast majority of the members wouldn't understand the significance, since they don't know how important "Aspen" was to the whole SP experience.

But who knows? It could end up being one of those case study-type things of how not to run a forum. Man, I know I could never do this to one of my moderators. Never. Especially not someone like Chris.

And to think he was the so-called SP King!! How ironic is that? Not to knock Nintendo (he seems like a nice enough guy), but perhaps it is telling that the self-proclaimed king of da wackos is now the SP King? That's just poetic, IMHO.

[KLB]

lo0ol has announced his resignation as a mentor over at SP.

[lo0ol]

This is true. I'm a free man, so to speak. Maybe I'll start popping over here more often. I even changed my signature from the one that was showing for three years.

And I also noticed that I had two new PMs from 2004 that I never answered. Sorry, dude.

[KLB]

Okay I've been fretting about it all week and I finally decided I had to make a decision and I decided to resign as a mentor over at SPF. See:
http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=353792

Like lo0ol by morning I should feel like a free man with a big weight lifted off my shoulders.

[Michael]

Well done guys, I think its a good idea, SP is taking a weird turn atm.

[lo0ol]

Like lo0ol by morning I should feel like a free man with a big weight lifted off my shoulders.
It's a weird feeling. It does feel like a weight has been lifted. It's somewhat cliche, but knowing that I won't have to bother about all of that again makes things... more relaxed in life. I was deliberating all this week what to do, too (thinking about SitePoint while sitting in class is unsettling and worrisome in itself), and this just makes sense to me right now, it really does.

[Doug]

It looks to me like this is turning out to be the straw that broke the camel's back for a lot of people.

[Mullen]

A massive loss for Sitepoint.

[platinum]

It's a weird feeling. It does feel like a weight has been lifted. It's somewhat cliche, but knowing that I won't have to bother about all of that again makes things... more relaxed in life. I was deliberating all this week what to do, too (thinking about SitePoint while sitting in class is unsettling and worrisome in itself), and this just makes sense to me right now, it really does.

Exactly the same :)
I've been pondering it a for a while now, while chris being cut off was the main part of it, the bull**** being handed out by SP staff was the icing on the cake... :confused:

[lo0ol]

Mattias (give or take), Chris, myself, KLB, platinum. Add to that the number of non-staffers who are either leaving outright or are cutting back their time spent there. They're not 100-post members, either.

Interesting way to start 2006.

[AndyH]

It would be interesting to know the real reason...

[charmedlover]

What will SitePoint do no? I think they'll regret making Chris leave, sooner or later at least.

[piniyini]

What will SitePoint do no? I think they'll regret making Chris leave, sooner or later at least.
Definitley, no doubt about it.


Mattias (give or take) It'd be great to have him over here, cant believe he's also leaving SP.

[Shawn]

I didn't know Mattias left.

[Vinnie]

I didn't know Mattias left.
He resigned a few weeks ago but still has advisor privileges for some reason.

[Shyflower]

I wondered what happened to Aspen. When I saw Ken's post today, I followed his link here. (Guess I should put him as a referral?)

Anyway, I have seen fewer posts by those that I admire at SP. I was very surprised to see you all here! I'm really happy to be here and happy that all of you are too! :)

[KLB]

It looks to me like this is turning out to be the straw that broke the camel's back for a lot of people.
It really was. I had been cutting back on my participation before becoming a mentor but tried to make a good showing once they promoted me. SPF was chewing up too much of my time and I didn't feel I was getting much out of it anymore. Chris getting fired was just the last straw.


He resigned a few weeks ago but still has advisor privileges for some reason.
I saw it coming with Mattias for a long time. I went to his blog a few times over the last several months trying to encourage him to participate more, but I could tell his heart wasn't in SPF any longer.

Maybe someone could get him to join here. He is about the best debator I know.

[charmedlover]

Quite a few people are leaving SitePoint, but I guess not all of them posted a thread for it?

[platinum]

Yeah I saw a few people post in announcements, but I kind of figured there was no point dropping another drama-bomb. :p

[KLB]

Well I figure it is proper for mentors, advisors and team leaders to post resignations. It kind of keeps members in the loop as to what is happening. Regular members can make their voices heard by their absense at SPF

[Photoshopfreak]

Some of you may know me from SP, i came here from a link posted in the thread mmj posted titled "Farewell Chris Beasley"...

All i got to say is Sitepoint back stabbed one of their best members, i signed up here to show support for Aspen as i enjoyed his posts/threads on SP, I will be active here now...

[KLB]

Welcome aboard. I think we will all learn a lot from these forums.

[Photoshopfreak]

Thanks for the welcome KLB...


I think we will all learn a lot from these forums.

We sure will as i has lost my appetite for SP now lol...

[Chris]

The Grow & Manage team is going to be pretty barebones.

Patrick Okeefe is mostly inactive in that section now. Moospot resigned (but I think he still has priviledges). Mattias resigned. By my count that only leaves Beley & Stymiee to moderate it. Plus there aren't any good mentor candidates anymore to promote to advisor status.

Imagine if Stymiee left, they would be in serious trouble. Have to merge teams and whatnot. Spam would increase, people would get annoyed and post elsewhere, etc.

[KLB]

Imagine if Stymiee left, they would be in serious trouble. Have to merge teams and whatnot. Spam would increase, people would get annoyed and post elsewhere, etc.

Like here maybe. :p Seriously I think these forums will be much more valuable than the grow and manage forums. The grow and manage forums have serously declined in quality over the past few months. They have basically turned into the repetative asking of the same questions over and over. They rarely cover new ground.

[Chris]

They have basically turned into the repetative asking of the same questions over and over. They rarely cover new ground.

Ya, I was thinking of that over breakfast.

Adsense Earnings Down/Up/Check yet?
Why don't I have Google PR?
How do I get a merchant account?

That is simply a function of being so large though. If you're constantly getting lots of new members without experience you'll get those questions. Although I think if they had added more subforums (something I repeatedly campaigned for) the forums would have stayed more usable as it'd have been easier to weed through that stuff.

[ramprage]

Im completely shocked and didn't hear anything about this until now. I saw the original thread on Sitepoint and thought you choose to leave.

Interesting..

[piniyini]

I've just read http://www.threadwatch.org/node/5791 and I'm not fond of what seobook/Aaron has to say, don't agree with him at all. Check it out for those of you who have not.

[KLB]

Hey we're famous now. ;) Viral marketing at work.

[piniyini]

and now a response from Matt Mickiewicz (I'm reading it now)


It seems that everyone thinks that Chris was not told why we no longer wanted him to represent SitePoint in an official capacity. That is not simply the case. We had a
private phone call with Chris, and we explained our reasons to him in full. We also
gave him an opportunity to ask as many questions as he wanted (which he did).

hmmm ...

edit, forgot link: http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2548055&postcount=105

[Vinnie]

I've just read http://www.threadwatch.org/node/5791 and I'm not fond of what seobook/Aaron has to say, don't agree with him at all. Check it out for those of you who have not.
That story's full of inaccuracies, like KLB being a team leader :confused:

[KLB]

That story's full of inaccuracies, like KLB being a team leader :confused:

Cool I got a promotion before resigning. I hadn't noticed that. :p

[Doug]

So they moved the SP thread to suggestions and feedback. Looks to me like they are starting to get a little nervous. It also seems like kind of an insult to me but I may be reading into things too much.

[Chris]

Wow... thanks for that link piniyini... guess I have to register there.

[lo0ol]

I've just read http://www.threadwatch.org/node/5791 and I'm not fond of what seobook/Aaron has to say, don't agree with him at all. Check it out for those of you who have not.
Wow, that's nuts that we've made an impact like that.

I'm not too pleased they moved it out of N&A either.

[Westech]

To be fair though, they did leave the pointer and they haven't locked the thread yet... Which are two things that really surprised me.

[Chris]

I think locking the thread would be very "Stalin" of them and cause even more backlash.

[KLB]

Well a milestone has been crossed. For the first time since joining SP it is no longer one of my Firefox startup tabs and its tab is no longer kept open. Basically I'm only visiting now when I get notifications in regards to replies to threads related to this topic.

[MarkB]

Yet you all keep talking about Sitepoint. How about drawing a line under it and move on?

[Vinnie]

Yet you all keep talking about Sitepoint. How about drawing a line under it and move on?
:agree: let's make some money or something :cool:

[KLB]

Hey give us a little time to get over this. Leaving SP is like Norm leaving Cheers.

[MarkB]

Oh please; it's not like you've lost a limb. Half the Sitepoint crew are over here now anyway LOL

I'm looking forward to the contributions from you all, but this continued chatter about Sitepoint is a bit sad. Chris got screwed, deserves better, and already has it here at WSP. Nuff said :p

[chromate]

Looks to me like they are starting to get a little nervous.

I think they are a bit worried. Matt Mickiewicz PM'd me trying to explain that they gave Chris all the information he needed and they wont make the reason public as they don't want to "hang him out to dry."

Doubt Matt would have bothered PM'ing me if they really were comfortable with what was happening.

The whole thing doesn't add up though. I suspect there's a lot of stuff we don't know about on all sides. <shrug>. Can't really be bothered with it all. People seem to love this kind of thing though. It's like being at school when there's some big bust-up going on.

Sitepoint isn't in trouble. It's just going through change and will probably end up kinda like WebmasterWorld (unfortunately).

[chromate]

Seems like you and me agree Mark! Let's just all please forget this and get on with things. Bunch of school girls ;)

[Westech]

Let's just all please forget this and get on with things. Bunch of school girls ;)

Yes... please! I now have 3 tabs open that I keep compulsively checking for updates: this thread, the sitepoint thread, and now that threadwatch thread. Let's just drop this so I can go back to getting some work done!

Why oh why do I have to be such a drama junky? :o

[Doug]

Well, I find it so interesting because SP made a corporate move that seems to have backfired in their face, that is why I keep watching what is going on.

[KLB]

Why oh why do I have to be such a drama junky? :o

Made you look... :p

[Westech]

Made you look... :p

That actually got me... How sad is that? Oh well, I'm off to check the sitepoint thread... :rolleyes:

[Torito]

Wow .. this whole thing reminds me of the power of the Internet .. it never ceases to surprise me. I used to enjoy the 'small town' flavour of this forum which i guess we have just lost, but I have to say that witnessing all this live has been very interesting. Welcome everybody!!

[Michael]

Wow... thanks for that link piniyini... guess I have to register there.

You've certainly started making your point there - I admire the fact that your a straight to the point no BS kinda guys, makes good for arguing :)

[ses5909]

Wow .. this whole thing reminds me of the power of the Internet .. it never ceases to surprise me. I used to enjoy the 'small town' flavour of this forum which i guess we have just lost, but I have to say that witnessing all this live has been very interesting. Welcome everybody!!
You haven't lost it. The people tht have migrated over here all have the same small-town feel. Give us a chance and you'll see.

[Peter T Davis]

Dunno if I have anything to add to this conversation, I'm still in shock about this. I can honestly say I am clueless about the reasoning behind Sitepoint's firing. If they have a reason for doing it, they haven't shared it with me.

[Torito]

You haven't lost it. The people tht have migrated over here all have the same small-town feel. Give us a chance and you'll see.

I know! So far I´m enjoying this transition process. I guess it´s just gonna be a 'big town' now .. with loads of fun too.

It´s not that I´m happy for what happened to Chris, but all this 'movement' has shown that there are still people with values, like loyalty, that care for one another and that it´s not all about business .. and that´s why I´m enjoying this so much.

[Percept]

Chris, it's been a while since I visited here but I read about your 'discharge' on Threadwatch ... and I was shocked really, I can't believe they made such a mistake at Sitepoint.

It's their loss, you don't need them ! I hope websitepublisher.net gets a good amount of visitors from this 'publicity'. Anyone who wants to make money with content sites is better of here anyway !

[Chris]

Guess who got a job offer from DevShed/SEOchat?

I turned it down, I don't want to jump into a new community as the new guy, but I find it vindicating that SP's largest competitor sees value in my work.

[FPU]

Chris, you know that Sitepoint is heading in the same direction as SEOchat did, into self destruction!

They are the joke of the trade, but money talks, if they make you a good offer, $100,000.00 a year or so I would take it! :D

[Shyflower]

Guess who got a job offer from DevShed/SEOchat?

I turned it down, I don't want to jump into a new community as the new guy, but I find it vindicating that SP's largest competitor sees value in my work.
Hmmm... DevShed is one of the few ezines I subscribe to and regularly read. :D However, I have never been to their forum.

[Peter T Davis]

Guess who got a job offer from DevShed/SEOchat?

I turned it down, I don't want to jump into a new community as the new guy, but I find it vindicating that SP's largest competitor sees value in my work.
How much did they offer to pay you? ;)

You know the reputation SEOChat has in the industry now, right?

[chromate]

I subscribe to the DevShed newsletter too and I have to say I've seen some interesting stuff in it.

Glad you turned it down though. Focus your efforts on this site and the rewards will be much greater in the end.

[FPU]

I subscribe to the DevShed newsletter too and I have to say I've seen some interesting stuff in it.

Glad you turned it down though. Focus your efforts on this site and the rewards will be much greater in the end.


I agree, with the stuff I have seen here, especially the vB forum stuff Chris has written he can't miss and that is just a small sample of what he offers!

http://websitepublisher.net/article/vbulletin-optimization/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Chris]

They didn't give me a number, but it couldn't have been much. And yes, I know about their reputation.

[stymiee]

What is their reputation?

[Chris]

Oh they did some major forum changes and many of their contributors left over it.

[FPU]

What is their reputation?

See this:

http://websitepublisher.net/forums/showpost.php?p=41809&postcount=21

If you need more dirt, let me know! :o

[KLB]

Oh they did some major forum changes and many of their contributors left over it.
Well that seems to be a common theme. ;)

[Dan Grossman]

What was the big deal about the signature links there? SitePoint doesn't show signatures to search engines at all... even though they used to as well...

[Bleys]

What was the big deal about the signature links there? SitePoint doesn't show signatures to search engines at all... even though they used to as well...

Oh no... don't get him started. ;)

DevShed is a large network, right? It would just be the SEOChat forums (relatively small part) that have this poor reputation recently, or am I mistaken?

[FPU]

What was the big deal about the signature links there? SitePoint doesn't show signatures to search engines at all... even though they used to as well...


Dan, Sitepoint is getting major heat on this issue right now across the worldwide webmaster forum circuit, look for them to address us soon on this!

SEO Chat was destroyed by adding "No Follow Tags" to links on an SEO forum, their members got pissed off about it as they are SEO's and value their links, they killed themselves!

"No follow tags" and their proper use on forums in signatures and within posts themselves are something we all need education on and I hope Chris will write a bit about this, I have asked Sarah King to conduct some research and she is working on it at this time!

There are hacks out for vBulletin that apply "no follow tags" to signatures and also limit them to one set of signatures to a forum page!

Examples of forums using this hack are www.vbwebmaster.com & www.seorefugee.com (I don't know their policies on no follow) but they only show a members signature once on each page, not in every post! The theory behind this hack is that the less outgoing links the higher the page's PR will be, I highly doubt that it helps, I think it hurts the forums because members get pissed off, but it is better than no signatures!

I don't like that, I prefer the signatures in each post, but it is better than nothing for content creators (forum members), on the other hand there is nothing worse than a forum that hides signatures to guests, that is a major crime!

[chromate]

"No follow tags" and their proper use on forums in signatures and within posts themselves are something we all need education on and I hope Chris will write a bit about this, I have asked Sarah King to conduct some research and she is working on it at this time!

I don't get what the big deal is about nofollow tags on forum sigs. Personally, if Chris made all sig links here "nofollow" I wouldn't be upset. He doesn't owe anyone the backlinks, and obtaining them is certainly not the reason I make posts.

... Spammers on the other hand :rolleyes:

[FPU]

Look man, read my post, there needs to be more research done on the subject and webmasters have a great need to be educated on proper use of "no follow tags"!

Let's hope Chris comes out with some articles, it is a complex subject and very confusing too, there are also associated risks in both directions, for website publishers and for forum members too!

There could be PR and SERP problems for sites that allow bad links to be published by contributors!

[deronsizemore]

I don't get what the big deal is about nofollow tags on forum sigs. Personally, if Chris made all sig links here "nofollow" I wouldn't be upset. He doesn't owe anyone the backlinks, and obtaining them is certainly not the reason I make posts.


Second

[Jon]

Guess who got a job offer from DevShed/SEOchat?

I turned it down, I don't want to jump into a new community as the new guy, but I find it vindicating that SP's largest competitor sees value in my work.

Kinda reminds me of the million dollar job offers that rejects from The Apprentice get after they are fired.

[stymiee]

Thanks for the link with the explanation.

[ses5909]

I've always been a fan of DevShed. Never been to SEOChats, but DevShed has some great material there.

[dc dalton]

I've always been a fan of DevShed. Never been to SEOChats, but DevShed has some great material there.

YEah I haunt them once in a while but there are some major leauge attitudes over there too. I see one more ripping of someone because the post wasn't by the book I'll scream!

[FPU]

It looks like the folks at Sitepoint are mad about members protesting, man I am so sad I could......laugh :lol:

It looks like they think that Chris has taken advantage of them now, so he is the bad guy or that is what some want to make him out to be! :p

Thread locked to save face at Sitepoint, they can't take it anymore!

http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2558806&postcount=161

Maybe when they come to their senses the founders will address the charges they must face sooner or later, later means more damage for Sitepoint, sooner is much better for them!

[Steelsun]

Looks like they locked every thread about any resignations (maybe a good thing I did not start one for mine - I've never had a thread locked I started).

Some of the threads were even locked without comment or cause that I could see.

Kind of petty.

[Sagewing]

It looks like the folks at Sitepoint are mad about members protesting, man I am so sad I could......laugh :lol:


FPU - You are one angry guy. I can't understand why anyone (except Chris, maybe) would be so over-excited about these issues that they would start forming organizations and doing boycotts, etc. Is this how you spend your time?

My sincere hope is that this forum can remain a useful and productive place. FPU, it is my opinion that your adversarial and combative additude (and actions) and exactly the kind of activity that leads to bickering and politics on forums. It's destructive, and doesn't do anyone any good.

You are trying to 'teach everyone a lesson'? Why dont' you take a lesson from Chris (and some others) and take the high road?

[FPU]

FPU - You are one angry guy. I can't understand why anyone (except Chris, maybe) would be so over-excited about these issues that they would start forming organizations and doing boycotts, etc. Is this how you spend your time?

My sincere hope is that this forum can remain a useful and productive place. FPU, it is my opinion that your adversarial and combative additude (and actions) and exactly the kind of activity that leads to bickering and politics on forums. It's destructive, and doesn't do anyone any good.

You are trying to 'teach everyone a lesson'? Why dont' you take a lesson from Chris (and some others) and take the high road?

You run your life and I will run mine, thanks for the input though!

[Chris]

Looks like they locked every thread about any resignations (maybe a good thing I did not start one for mine - I've never had a thread locked I started).

Some of the threads were even locked without comment or cause that I could see.

Kind of petty.
Didn't seem to work, people keep making new threads.

[Robb]

I know im a little late for this thread, but I do not post on sitepoint unless its for design work I'm trying to get. Any other purpose of sitepoint is null and void to me. I see already on WPF that I will enjoy my stay much longer, and will try to give as much knowledge as I know and learn back to the community here.

- Robb

[FPU]

Thanks for joining, we look forward to reading your comments! :banana: