How to get rich!

[Todd W]

Save some of your money...
Ok, now that I have your attention :p


How do you guys decide what you spend on "fun stuff" and what you "re-invest" in the business. For those of us doing this part time or even full time it sometimes is hard to save money for the business and not spend it on ouselves, I mean afterall it is "our job". So how do you determine how much to save, and how much to spend on "fun stuff" :confused:

I think this could be a good topic... discuss :D

[James]

There's no determining, it's how bad you want more money vs. how much you feel like using it. In general it's a good idea to save it up, and pass up lots of small things that'd give you a minute amount of joy so you can spend it on things more useful and funner/better.

[Todd W]

There's no determining, it's how bad you want more money vs. how much you feel like using it. In general it's a good idea to save it up, and pass up lots of small things that'd give you a minute amount of joy so you can spend it on things more useful and funner/better.

Sorry James, I didn't mean to make the post sound like I was looking for a textbook definition. I fully understand the different techniques, and methods to saving, and taking a %, etc.. I`m just curious how the people here at WSP do it, and justify what they do.

Hope that's more clear.

[Cutter]

Put yourself in a situation so its hard to spend money on the fun stuff instead of the business. I'm constantly investing money back into my sites. When I started out everything went to hosting and domains. Now I'm buying content, better software (such as vBulletin), etc.

My "fun" money tends to go to concerts and little else. Everything else is necessities like food, rent, & gas. I spend the bare minimum on clothes. I don't spend money eating out. (You can buy a lot of eggs for $1!)

That being said, its actually not as difficult, or painful, to watch what you spend as it seems. I've read stories of other entrepreneurs sleeping in their studio apartment's kitchen floor, eating exclusively mac and cheese, etc. Makes me feel pretty damn lucky!

Most of spending is society driven thanks to advertising and marketing -- two things which very much interest me ;) Watch your spending month to month and isolate wherer most of your money is going. Weigh out how much enjoyment you get out of each thing you do. Cut off the spending to things that you don't really enjoy. You might even be spending money doing things you hate just because your friends do them.

Spending wisely isn't easy, but its far from impossible either. The more you re-invest today, the sooner you are going to reach your goals.

[Todd W]

Put yourself in a situation so its hard to spend money on the fun stuff instead of the business. I'm constantly investing money back into my sites. When I started out everything went to hosting and domains. Now I'm buying content, better software (such as vBulletin), etc.

My "fun" money tends to go to concerts and little else. Everything else is necessities like food, rent, & gas. I spend the bare minimum on clothes. I don't spend money eating out. (You can buy a lot of eggs for $1!)

That being said, its actually not as difficult, or painful, to watch what you spend as it seems. I've read stories of other entrepreneurs sleeping in their studio apartment's kitchen floor, eating exclusively mac and cheese, etc. Makes me feel pretty damn lucky!

Most of spending is society driven thanks to advertising and marketing -- two things which very much interest me ;) Watch your spending month to month and isolate wherer most of your money is going. Weigh out how much enjoyment you get out of each thing you do. Cut off the spending to things that you don't really enjoy. You might even be spending money doing things you hate just because your friends do them.

Spending wisely isn't easy, but its far from impossible either. The more you re-invest today, the sooner you are going to reach your goals.


I think my problem is that I have to expensive of a hobbey! I don't waste my money on "cool" stuff or stuff I want around the house etc, but I`m always dumping money into my buggy or truck it seems. (Front axle in the works thats gonna run upwards of $5500)... That stuff adds up, and each montH I tell myself oh after this you wont need anymore parts, then I bust a part and need something else.

Personaly in 2006 I am going to start taking a % of my earnings and putting that away for savings and taxes.

That's my goal atleast... 20% or 30% not sure yet.

[Sean]

As far as reinvesting goes, I plan to reinvest 100% of what I earn from my websites while I'm starting out. Not sure if I'll keep at 100% but no less than 75% reinvested to ensure growth.

For spending money on fun stuff, I make it a point to find hobbies which involve one or two purchases that will last a while (i.e. a computer or musical instrument) as opposed to hobbies which don't last or become like liabilities with frequent purchases ( i.e. cutter's concert tickets or collections of any kind). My last purchase for myself was a $500 electric keyboard which I use everyday and that was over a year ago. I think the best hobby would be one which is both fun and makes money, though (websites).

I'm probably not a good case for this thread because I'm only 18 and still live at my parents house and am only getting started with web publishing. I also don't have friends or a car so I don't have much to spend on.

[chromate]

I put about 40% of what I earn aside for tax, student loan repayment, national insurance etc. After bills and other living expenses I don't get too much left over each month. So to be honest, at the moment I re-invest almost nothing into my business as it all goes on stuff I enjoy instead. Aside from hosting and domains, I've only bought a few articles and some software. Perhaps a total of about $300 re-invested since I started doing this.

This has to change! In the past I've tended to create a whole site myself, always thinking, why pay someone else to do something that I can do for free? But now I appreciate more and more that time is money. I plan to outsource much more now, with the aim that eventually I'll just come up with the ideas and I'll have the freelancing infrastructure in place ready to put the ideas into action straight away.

[Chris]

I've only just started to reinvest more in my business (meaning paying people to do things for me rather than doing them myself) in the past year or so.

Its more of a time thing though I think than a money thing.

[Cutter]

Your car is, hands down, one of the worst places to put your money. This is money that just dissappears. You'll only get back a very small percentage of any mods when you sell it, on top of massive depreciation of the car overall.

In my opinion, your car should not be worth more than a month or two of income. Don't get me wrong, I love cars. But when faced with driving a nice car today and a nice car tommorow vs driving a low-end car today and a lambo tommorow... I'll stick with the low-end car today.

[ogito]

ditto, the car is the worst investment. I also like cars, but the price should be reasonable.

[Todd W]

Sorry guys, my car (truck) is not just something "nice" to drive. It's functional, I need it to tow my buggy, and I don't want a clunker breaking down on my 800+ mile to Moab Utah (from CA). Also don't want the buggy breaking down 5 miles into a trail in the middle of no where.

If you are barely scraping by you shouldn't have super nice car, but if you are saving money, and have enough for a nice car I say get one :D

Right now I do all the work for my sites including hosting. Things I pay for the business monthly are.
-Advertising (around $200)
-Servers (Around $400)
-Security/Admin Servers (very cheap)

So my re-investing currently is simply advertising sites to promote new sites etc, and lately I`ve purchased a couple little scripts and website designs for new sites. Other than that my money goes for fun stuff, and or savings.

It sounds like some of you are in the position I am in, deciding if you want to start paying others to do work for you or keep doing it yourself.

[Cutter]

No need to say sorry. Whats important is that you set goals and you are happy with them. My goal is not to make as much money as possible, but to make as much money as I can and reach the lifestyle goals I want. I'll take a million dollars over a billion if a billion is going to cost me the next 30 years of my life and be unenjoyable.

[mini]

How about shares day trading? it's faster than earning money online lol! My bf did it few times (he can do it because he works full time on his business) and he refreshed the shares day trading site and made AUD $300 in couple hrs :). He's thinking of getting a marginal loan now.

I know someone who still works full time eventhough he already has 2 houses fully paid and $200K in shares because he doesn't want to see his wife all day everyday :). He's saving up to open a bar in Japan. All his money earned from day trading.

Anyways, as far as I know, my boyfriend invests his cash 70-80% back to his business, this will help him to reduce the tax and grow his business . He's a very simple bloke (sometimes I think he's a bit boring hehehe..). He still drives a $10K car (eventhough he'd love to drive a grandpa's style car - mercedes E class) but he said at the moment, there's no rush to get the car and he has nothing to loose, no commitments, etc. So all the cash goes to his websites. The other 20% goes to his cricket and tennis gear. He loves cricket so much that he has top of the range gear and he plays 5 days a week. He told me the other day that how good is it that he's out playing cricket while he still earns money hehehe...BTW, he's a member here, but he hardly writes anything. I start to write a lot because my current work's so boring. My consultancy assignment this time is not as glamourous as the others, its in a small country town (so boring) and I hate it.

[Chris]

Many people LOST their houses daytrading in the late 90's. Its risky if you get in over your head (margin etc).

[thebillionaire]

im gonna keep investing on my site until I get to 30k a month

[Todd W]

Here's a good question.

What do you guys re-invest into your site?

I do all my own programming, design(templates), hosting, etc. My expenses are simply advertising.

I guess investing in my business IS PAYING MYSELF to continue programming, and making such sites?

I have looked at paying other ppl to make sites for me but the cost of paying them is a LOT!

The only plus I see to paying others to design/program/input data for my new sites is they will get finished whereas I dont' have much time recently to work.

[ozgression]

What do you guys re-invest into your site?

Mainly coding (custom scripts), basic advertising and content. Looking to get some cheap web designs done soon.

[Todd W]

I`ve found a lot of great workers on elance.com
Some I still use from back when elance FIRST started.

For some people this is great but others that don't like to outsource may find this is not for them.

[thebillionaire]

I`ve found a lot of great workers on elance.com
Some I still use from back when elance FIRST started.

For some people this is great but others that don't like to outsource may find this is not for them.

dont the people at elance charge alot?

[Todd W]

dont the people at elance charge alot?

For buyers it's free to use elance.

If you mean the people bidding to do the work, in my expierence no! A LOT cheaper than anyone else i`ve found. Maybe i`ve been very lucky but $4/hr for data entry is pretty cheap, and for web design and programming I pay by the job. Now for data entry I use local high school kids and pay minimum wage. An extra dollar an hour isn't that much to keep the money local. (I don't do this often, as I just write some php scripts to do my data entry/moving.)

[Cutter]

I'm reinvesting my money into content and software. I'm finding the best investment is my own time. I am planning on doing some aquisitions of other sites in 2006, we'll see how that goes.

[Todd W]

I'm reinvesting my money into content and software. I'm finding the best investment is my own time. I am planning on doing some aquisitions of other sites in 2006, we'll see how that goes.

Thanks that's one I forgot! Site aquisitions, a lot of webmasters sell their sites and are prime picking to earn a little extra w/little to no work. Even nice cook-cutter sites can be "fixed up" to earn some money. (This of course requires SEO, and other changes to make it stand out, but it's possible.)

[chromate]

I'm reinvesting my money into content and software. I'm finding the best investment is my own time. I am planning on doing some aquisitions of other sites in 2006, we'll see how that goes.

I've been looking for a good site to buy for a long time. They all seem so over priced though. I'm always extremely cautious as to why someone would be selling a profitable site anyway. I know that a lot of the time it's probably legit. But it seems so easy to have the rug pulled from under your feet. The "safe-bet" sites are mormally mega expensive.

I also hire from elance to get content done. I haven't done it much, but I've found it a great way to get work done. I'm definitely going to use them in the future to get more content produced.

[Masetek]

I'm reinvesting my money into content and software. I'm finding the best investment is my own time. I am planning on doing some aquisitions of other sites in 2006, we'll see how that goes.

I wanna buy some sites next year too. But like Chromate said, I'm too worried about getting the woll pulled over my eyes. All the good ones sell for too much. I'd much rather buy from someone I knew. Or at least someone from here, not one of the bigger forums.

[Chris]

There is definitely alot of shady sellers.

For me... buying a site rarely makes sense. If its a good site then I can usually have it built for less than they want for it. If its not a good site then it's usually not worth the price.

The only real value thus is the existing traffic, and considering my own promotional abilities its rarely enough for me to consider making the purchase.

So, to date, I've only bought one site. (http://www.thefantasyforum.com) At the time it had 250k posts and I paid $1500, so I think it was a good deal.

[Todd W]

There is definitely alot of shady sellers.

For me... buying a site rarely makes sense. If its a good site then I can usually have it built for less than they want for it. If its not a good site then it's usually not worth the price.

The only real value thus is the existing traffic, and considering my own promotional abilities its rarely enough for me to consider making the purchase.

So, to date, I've only bought <a href = "http://www.thefantasyforum.com">one site.</a> At the time it had 250k posts and I paid $1500, so I think it was a good deal.

250k posts for $1500 screamin deal :D

[Snowballer]

yeah, I can't imagine forums with $250K posts going for that low....must have earned its money back in no time.

[The New Guy]

I could see it. After all forums in mortal hands often make little money.

[MarkB]

Tell me about it...

[mini]

I bought sites mainly for the content and to re-direct traffic. The sites that I bought mainly similar to my existing sites.

[Cutter]

The key factor when buying a website is to know where the traffic is coming from. I'd want comprehensive stats from the past year. I would also do a criminal background check on the selling for anything over $1,000. I'd also need full disclosure of any advertising. Wouldn't be a bad idea to have a contract either.

Even then, there are a few "Google" factors:

1 - For Adsense sites -- Smart pricing. There is some question as to how google calculates revenues. When you switch the ads to your account the revenues may rise or drop. No way to tell what its going to do.

2 - Whois info. It is no secret that Google is factoring in the whois in its ranking. I've heard from reputable sources that rankings have been lost after switching over the whois info to their own name. If you don't, then you technically don't own the site. I'd investigate a long-term lease contract.

[Todd W]

The key factor when buying a website is to know where the traffic is coming from. I'd want comprehensive stats from the past year. I would also do a criminal background check on the selling for anything over $1,000. I'd also need full disclosure of any advertising. Wouldn't be a bad idea to have a contract either.

Even then, there are a few "Google" factors:

1 - For Adsense sites -- Smart pricing. There is some question as to how google calculates revenues. When you switch the ads to your account the revenues may rise or drop. No way to tell what its going to do.

2 - Whois info. It is no secret that Google is factoring in the whois in its ranking. I've heard from reputable sources that rankings have been lost after switching over the whois info to their own name. If you don't, then you technically don't own the site. I'd investigate a long-term lease contract.


1- If you don't like adsense use adbrite or YPN.
2- You can completely block whois records so I don't see how this is valid.

Buying a site is risky but buying anything used or "not ceritified" is... do your research.

[ozgression]

2 - Whois info. It is no secret that Google is factoring in the whois in its ranking. I've heard from reputable sources that rankings have been lost after switching over the whois info to their own name. If you don't, then you technically don't own the site. I'd investigate a long-term lease contract.

That's a bit extreme, just buy whois blocking from your domain registrar. Why lease a site?

[The New Guy]

I think the most important thing is content. If the site has zero traffic, but a ton of useable content it is worth something. Traffic without content is fickle and not long term.

[Cutter]

You don't get it guys, if you use whois blocking aka "whois privacy" -- the whois info for the domain changes.

If you don't believe Google factors this, read this comments in this post at Jim Boykin's blog: http://www.jimboykin.com/screw-the-sandbox-buy-and-old-site/

Maybe they are wrong -- but I definately wouldn't want to bet a valuable site on it.

[Blue Cat Buxton]

Is there an argument that says, if you are looking long term - and possibly to sell developed sites - the WHOIS information should be easily transferrable. For example when I register mymagicbeans.com. I register the whois as "My Magic Beans". Someone acquiring the site would then acquire the My Magic Beans entity?

[Cutter]

It might make things easier for the buyer, but I doubt it would make your site worth anymore to them. I'm planning on registering either seperate LLCs or Corps for my biggest sites. But, right now all of my domains use whois protection (which probably isn't helping me out with Google.)

[Blue Cat Buxton]

Hmm, I didn't think it would add value, just make it easier as you say.

It doesnt seem a very valid way to produce great search results though, simply to demote a site because the Whois has changed (or because the owner has changed for that matter)

[chromate]

It doesnt seem a very valid way to produce great search results though, simply to demote a site because the Whois has changed (or because the owner has changed for that matter)

Exactly. I think the idea that whois plays a role in ranking is ridiculous. Why should google care that someone new owns a site? Google should care about the site itself, not the owner.

The only thing I think Google might be interested in is the length of time the domain is registered for. Spam sites are more likely to register a domain on a short term. A domain registered for 5 years is less likely to be a spam site. But even that association is tenuous at best. Apart from perhaps that, I doubt google care about the whois data at all.

I'm not sure how the sandbox operates anymore, or if it does at all. I've launched a site a couple of weeks back that only has 2 pages, on a new domain. It's already getting traffic for those pages. Chris is already getting traffic for his laser hair removal site which he too has only recently launched. What's the deal?

As I've said before, I've decided to concentrate on the basics of SEO and forget fussing over the latest trends. A good site with good content will eventually get a good ranking. At least, that's what I keep telling myself ;)

[Cutter]

The problem is spammers pick up dropped domains and buy old domains specifically to avoid the "sandbox."

Speaking about the sandbox, from my own experience, Google will send traffic to a brand new site that has incoming links right after the site is launched, but that traffic will drop off in a couple of weeks.

I agree, the best way to optimze your site is make it great site with lots of content, and make sure it is search engine friendly. You can help yourself along by making sure owners of other sites in your niche know about you and are regularly linking to your content.

The other little details are largely the result of "spammers" trying to do things to get rankings to low quality sites. Believe me, if you've got the best site in your niche, Google wants you to be on page 1.

[MarkB]

Sure, but sometimes Google has a hard time seeing that a site is the best in its niche.

[Masetek]

The only thing I think Google might be interested in is the length of time the domain is registered for. Spam sites are more likely to register a domain on a short term. A domain registered for 5 years is less likely to be a spam site. But even that association is tenuous at best. Apart from perhaps that, I doubt google care about the whois data at all.


From what I have read, I only thought they were looking at the length too. Yes a spammer can register an old domain, but it's still a hinderance for them as opposed to registering a new domain.

I launched a site last week, and it started getting traffic the day it was spidered. In fact, it already made it to the top of page 2 on serps for some key terms I wanted.

[ozgression]

Speaking about the sandbox, from my own experience, Google will send traffic to a brand new site that has incoming links right after the site is launched, but that traffic will drop off in a couple of weeks.

Yeah, that's been my recent experiences too.

[Todd W]

Personaly I don't worry about the whois conspiracy stuff.
I can only control it to a certain degree, so I`m not going to waste my time worrying about it.