Is PageRank ever going to update?

[incka]

15 days ago I would have just said it's taking it's time, but now I'm thinking it will never update again.

Any thoughts?

[Jaffro]

I hope it holds off til my new site gets in the index ;) hehe

[Mike]

I'm not sure it'll update again, at least, not on the toolbar.

[Chris]

Probably only once a quarter or so.

[intelliot]

To prevent abuse I'm sure they'll delay it more, but I do think they will update it because many users are using their toolbar and it would be quite drastic if they changed it.

[AfterHim.com]

I don't think they will ever show us pr again...just a theory, but this is a lot longer that it has ever gone...i think PR is gone for us :)

[AndyH]

Something I found out -

http://www.hellbored.com/cheats/nintendo-64/cheats.html was added to DMOZ and also Googles directory since the last PR update (on the toolbar atleast) and the page is showing 0 PR.

However, going to the Google Directory and looking at the page in the list the PR display to the left is showing 6. So I am guessing that the display on the Google Directory has been updated but the toolbar hasn't.

[Westech]

Andy, you may be right. One of mine has shown 5 on the toolbar for the last few months and still does, but now says 4 in the directory.

[Chris]

The directory uses a different scale than the toolbar.

[incka]

It looks like it's out of 8 not 10 in the directory too...

[Blue Cat Buxton]

Also, the toolbar is updating, at least for new sites.

For example a .info I bought recently when they were going free I added 1 or 2 links to, has been crawled and is now showing a white bar on the toolbar. deeper pages are showing grey (and have not yet been crawled).

[nohaber]

Toolbar PR should either get updated from time to time or it should show nothing for all pages. I don't believe it would stay in its current state forever.

[Emancipator]

I dont live or die by PR. My sites have always done well on google. The PR google shows us means nothing to me. Although it is interesting to see if in fact they do continue updating the toolbar PR.

[marengo]

I think PR will never update . :(

Nat

[Nick]

The real question is "Does anyone care"?

PR has no reflection on how profitable a site is.

[MarkB]

Of course not - nobody is suggesting it is. However, it is a nice way of seeing how your site is doing, if only in the PR stakes (I just enjoy seeing it rise and fall).

[Mike]

I care. Sites don't seem to want to exchange with other sites that don't have PR.

[James]

I agree Mike, lots of websites will turn down sites who get good (even great) traffic just because of the PR. Which doesn't really make much sense to me. PR isn't everything. In fact, there are lots of things that are more important.

[chromate]

I care too. In addition to what Mike rightly points out, PR is still the basis for Google's ranking algs. I don't get why some people say "PR doesn't matter". If you're optimizing for Google, then it does matter. Fact. Show me some pages with high rankings on competitive terms that have a low PRs. I'm sure there are a few freak pages, but on the whole...

It therefore, also follows that if a site's profit is dependant on its traffic then PR, in turn, is related to that site's profitability (if the site is dependant on SE rankings).

Of course, no one's saying that PR is an instant key to SE success, but make no doubt, it is still an integral piece of the pie.

[Kyle]

I have emailed Google I believe 3 times now, recommending the following ideas. I believe these ideas solve a number of good points mentioned by both chromate, and Mike.

I told them to remove the pagerank info from the toolbar. I mentioned how webmasters abuse this info when doing link exchanges (yes. many webmasters don't abuse this, so please dont pick at me for making statements like this). I mentioned that instead of showing this information, Google should provide more detailed information regarding whether a page is banned or part of a bad neighborhood, etc. Then, webmasters will have to use other sources of information in determining whether a link exchange should be done.

Other sources can include...
- Alexa ranking
- DMOZ listings
- Google should still show toolbar style pagerank values of DMOZ listed sites through their directory.google.com since this is updated frequently (not once a quarter)
- They can still check the number of backlinks to the site, and where those backlinks come from.
- How well the site ranks on terms they are obviously competiting on.
- And last, the webmasters own point of view. Whether the site is quality or crap, and whether their links page is quality or crap. The style of a person's links page is very important. Especially in determining the webmaster's goals.

Off topic...
I for one am VERY tired of seeing this MASSIVE dynamic directories setup in people's links sections. You know what I'm referring to. Those sites that talk about health insurance, then have a links section that goes 20 levels deep and links to sites ranging from condoms, to snowboarding accessories.

[chromate]

Given the problems that it's generated, I can't see that publishing PR on the toolbar will be continued in the long term. From Google's point of view I can't think of many reasons why they would want to retain this feature, but I can think of a many good reasons for getting rid of it.

[Mike]

After Icebane's post, I'm not sure whether I want it shown anymore. Without doubt, the search results would improve. Spammers would have to do A LOT more work (like checking DMOZ etc as Icebane stated), and probably wouldn't bother.

More work would be needed from the webmaster, but in the end there would probably be less sites to compete with, and most importantly, the search results would improve.

Regarding if it will happen, I don't think it will. Just think, would you have the toolbar if it didn't include the PR bar? Some may, but I'd think a lot wouldn't. I only have it because of the PR bar. But because I have it, I use google more often to search. I just type into the toolbar, and that's it. I can gurantee that I wouldn't perform half as many searches without the toolbar.

[Westech]

Speaking of problems generated by PR, does anyone else find the "Linkworth" adsense ad at the top of this thread humorous? "Buy links, sell links, ..... High search engine rankings. I thought Google discouraged things like this. Why would they accept that ad?

[Kyle]

Mike, I think you forgot that I asked them to put more detailed information on whether a page is banned or part of a bad neighborhood. So yes, if they included that, people would still use the toolbar.

[ASP-Hosting.ca]

The problem with the current PR situation is that the new sites’ PR is not being updated, but Google still shows PR for all sites, thus making old sites more valuable than new ones in the eyes of the webmaster community.

I doubt Google will ever stop using PR, but it’s a good idea to hide it if they don’t update it anymore…

[Blue Cat Buxton]

<cynical theory>I guess a lot of web masters started using the google tools bar because of pagerank. It was therefore very useful to G in getting the toolbar established, but now it is, they can drop the green bar. By making it useless before they do drop it from the tool bar they will reduce the adverse comments they get. People will still use the toolbar for its popup blockers and seach facilities. </cynical theory>

[MarkB]

Surely spammy sites don't GET into DMOZ?

[Kyle]

Surely spammy sites don't GET into DMOZ?

VERY rarely.

What happens often is a spammy site isn't spammy when first getting accepted into DMOZ. Once they are accepted, they modify their site, applying spammy characteristics.

[LuckyShima]

I agree very strongly with some of the posters in here. Without any doubt displayed PR has value. It is not a neutral attribute of a site. It can affect the ability to attact link exchanges which in turn affects a sites rankings. It can also be used to sell advertising. If Google is not going to update it and therefore penalise new sites or sites with new pages then they should remove it from the tool bar and not display it at all.

However, Googlesoft is not our friend. Displaying outdated PR serves a purpose for them of keeping alive the mythology they have built around their ranking system while partially removing what they see as a potential threat to that system caused by extensive link exchanges and text link sales by limiting those exchanges and sale to established sites already displaying PR.

[nohaber]

I cannot agree more with chromate. I care about PR and I have no idea how the self-proclaimed SEO experts "think" that PR does not matter.

What will happen if Google hides the toolbar PR? I guess that would increase the number of reciprocal linking. If I don't know the PR, I'd just make sure I exchange as much as I can and protect PR with internal linking.

Delayed toolbar PR leads to less links on the web :)

[chromate]

I think people will continue to use the toolbar even if the PR indicator is removed. I would imagine that the web-dev community are only a small fraction of the toolbar's total user base, especially after Google decided to promote it on their front page.

I know I would continue to use it, as I often use the search bit. Of course, we're talking internet explorer too so the pop-up blocker is often handy.

[Jaffro]

I downloaded divX the other day and its bundled with it the google toolbar. just an intresting side note :)