Generating google PR

[Dan]

I was just reading an article here about PageRank and how important internal links are. So if I was to have a huge site with each page linking to each other and no external links linking in. Could I generate Page Rank ??? and a decent page rank??? from PR0 ???

Or if I had 10 sites all linking to each other and internal links on each optimised, could I generate better page rank???

All this without any external links and starting from PR0 ???


Thanks everyone,

-Dan

[tomek]

I don't think you can get high PR only with internal links
you need both internal and external ones...

[r2d2]

By my calculations, getting 1000 pages indexed could give you a PR3 homepage, getting 10,000 would give you a good PR4 homepage (i.e. >PR4.5).

In true mathematical tradition though, this is assuming a perfect scenario, where your homepage links to all 10,000 pages, and they all have just one link on them, and this link goes back to the homepage, and they all get indexed.

In reality I think you would have trouble getting that many indexed unless you had a decent PR to start with.

[tomek]

as r2d2 says: google won't index too many pages if you don't have a decent pr

[incka]

One of my sites that hasn't got PR has 22,000 pages indexed. Explain that.

[r2d2]

When was the last PR update? Mid june I think? Which site?

Also, I doubt the linking structure is as set out in my 'perfect' scenario described above.

Edit: I assume its book-reviews.ws? (Its down the moment by the way) You also link to it from here which would give a fair amount of PR if it was around during the last PR update, strengthening my argument that it has no PR due to not being around in the last PR update.

[Mike]

Well you can generate pagerank, just not one that high. But really, if you have a big site, you have more chance of getting links to you.

[r2d2]

Well you can generate pagerank, just not one that high.

20,000,000 indexed pages would give you a solid PR9 ;) :rolleyes:

[Mike]

Would it? How would you spread the PR you made around with a site that big?

[r2d2]

Thats again with my perfect scenario though, a PR9 homepage with 20 million links on it, and 20million subpages all with PR0.

For 20 million pages youd need some ridiculous linking structure. Would need a few levels of subpages which would spread the PR more, resulting in more PR to subpages and less to the homepage, would probably still be PR7 or something, with a few hundred PR6s, 5s etc.

All hypothetical though - but would make an interesting experiment!

[Chris]

Of course it is somewhat a catch 22. Google isn't going to index all those pages without enough initial weight.

I did get a site of approximately 100 pages up to a PR of 2 with 0 external incoming links.

You can generate PR like this, but its much easier to just work on incoming links.

[r2d2]

Could be interesting to do a few experiments with sites with no incoming links to figure out the variables in the PR formula.

PR2 from ~100 pages would suggest the weighting is less than 0.85, or the base is less than 5 (what I have been using).

[intelliot]

Again the problem is getting those ~100 page indexed and then getting the PR updated, how will we do that?

[Dan]

Thanks for all the info guys,

With the PR test all you could do is link all 100 pages to each other and submit to google, I guess ?

[intelliot]

Sites submitted to Google don't always get crawled and indexed

[James]

Actually, many people believe that it's benificial to just get links to your website, rather than submitting.

I do, however, believe that it's true that if you do have a massive and high quality website, it doesn't stand a snowball's chance in Hell of not getting linked to; a lot.

Be interesting to see this theoretical 20 million page website. Especially if its servers could survive a Google crawl ;)

PS what does Catch 22 mean?

[AndyH]

PS what does Catch 22 mean?

In this case, the catch is that without having a high PR your site won't get 20 million pages indexed and so therefor can not create the PR.

[Rick]

this is silly! why wouldn't you at least submit to directories, etc. to get easy external links in addition to the internal links?

[Dan]

Thanks for all the info guys,

Rick, its more of a hypothetical situation, how much PR can be generated without incomming links.

[James]

You just have to remember that the exact same design and content has the possibility of being crawled worse with a lower PR, so you always want as many link-ins as you can get. However, I don't suggest link farms, paid links, or having a page with like 800 links on it to other sites you exchanged links with. And always review sites you're exchanging links with.

Yes, it is very hypothetical.
But imagine, if you will, a place without hypothetical situations. ;)

Andy, I meant the word in general--thanks anyways.
Just did a quick search on UrbanDictionary.com
Catch 22: A requirement that cannot be met until a prerequisite requirement is met, however, the prerequisite cannot be obtained until the original requirement is met.

[Dan]

So if you have 10 identical sites with different domains, Google will rank them lower?

[AndyH]

So if you have 10 identical sites with different domains, Google will rank them lower?

Supposably Google does duplicate content filtering (I think they have a patent on it?) but with all the Amazon Web Service sites with "duplicate contents" it seems as if they don't.

[Dan]

Based on what I know about SEO, which ain't much, I doubt they would penalise you, because its a external site. If it worked that way your competitors could replicate your site to lower your page rank.

[ozgression]

If it worked that way your competitors could replicate your site to lower your page rank.

That is a good point. But on the other hand, if your competitors replicated your site, you would be able to sue them to take it down.
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[Dan]

Thats true ozgression, but I thought a site couldn't be penalised my external sites?
I can see how google would rank a site lower if all the content/page structure was the same though.

[James]

What if you did something like use a library computer or a cyber cafe computer to copy the person's website?
and you used money order, wearing latex gloves and shaved your head and bathed in alchohol etc. to have it free of DNA (probably not required) mailed it using no return address and just generally made it hard as hell, and not worth it to find you?

[joeychgo]

By my calculations, getting 1000 pages indexed could give you a PR3 homepage, getting 10,000 would give you a good PR4 homepage (i.e. >PR4.5).

In true mathematical tradition though, this is assuming a perfect scenario, where your homepage links to all 10,000 pages, and they all have just one link on them, and this link goes back to the homepage, and they all get indexed.

In reality I think you would have trouble getting that many indexed unless you had a decent PR to start with.


im up to about 7000 indexed, with a pr4